tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post7353239473254182999..comments2024-03-18T02:43:22.233-07:00Comments on Antediluvian Salad: Making Dromaeosaurids Nasty Again Part II - No Shame In the Scavenging GameDuane Nashhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-78500301737588301662016-07-19T21:14:00.385-07:002016-07-19T21:14:00.385-07:00Vultures may be fierce, but when I think of raptor...Vultures may be fierce, but when I think of raptor scavenging behaviour, I think of the caracara. They have been known to bully even vultures at carcasses, and they hunt and nest on the ground like dromaeosaurids.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-17484860658438584842016-07-10T16:15:17.685-07:002016-07-10T16:15:17.685-07:00Hi I was thinking of posting this comment in your ...Hi I was thinking of posting this comment in your part three article but thought this was more topic apporpiate place to do so, if you are alright with me posting something like this in a less related but more recent article that would be a nice clarification.<br /><br />But back to the point, given that Dakota raptor was a curosial lappet faced vulture with greater predator inclinations well, the next thing that strikes me as being similar to this style of creature would be the various abelisaurs of South America and maybe North Africa. The idea is that given there was a lot more giant titanosaurs in SA there would be larger Dakota raptor type Dino's and given that abelisaurs fit this niche quite well being so curosial and large etc. Sure the largest abelisaurs would probably not fit here but given your original consternation as to the whole what hell were abelisaurs ( this is relation to your falcon or vulture allosaurus article) doing for ecology well perhaps they were the 2nd (or maybe first) responders to the many large carcasses. This along with the many smaller abelisauroids acting like raptors in niche seems awfully uncanny.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444274404962614808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-76383028779851622502016-07-06T11:11:20.025-07:002016-07-06T11:11:20.025-07:00Thanks Jonathan!!Thanks Jonathan!!Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-65258432612211868862016-07-05T20:39:20.881-07:002016-07-05T20:39:20.881-07:00If anyone wants to read a relatively recent paper ...If anyone wants to read a relatively recent paper on vulture interspecific conflict( especially against raptors and other vultures) It's quite the little gem.<br /><br />"Vultures: their evolution, ecology, and conservation" 2015<br /><br />It covers everything in the title for both new and old world vultures, truly fascinating read, it's on Google books if your wondering where to read it, it cost 103 $ for ebooks but you can read the stuff on vultures and raptor interspecifics between page 136 to 148 and more for free, there's probably more you can read on the inter species relationships but I don't know if you can read the whole book for free or not.<br /><br />Enjoy JonAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444274404962614808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-43518160491279697732016-07-04T12:50:21.961-07:002016-07-04T12:50:21.961-07:00Two thumbs up!Two thumbs up!Questioningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-39072434255010047532016-07-02T23:08:27.674-07:002016-07-02T23:08:27.674-07:00A small caveat to the first paragraph, from what I...A small caveat to the first paragraph, from what I found in two hours of research lions and hyenas seem to have about equal rates of stealing from each other (when averaged across all populations), hyenas also seem to do more hunting proportionally to what lions do over all, so the lions are the bigger scavengers really. That said hyenas as a general rule will not attack a kill that a male lion plus pride is at simply because the male is so big and strong(images of tigers single handedly fighting packs of wolves comes to mind).<br />(My sources are the African journal of ecology, Botswana.co.za, and some sources from Wikipedia )<br /><br />Also about the whole eagles v vultures caveat. At first i would have thought that eagles would win at kills, obviously that's mostly wrong with your first vulture terror bird post. But when I further researched it, well I really can't see why the large vultures both new and old world would ever lose. Most old world vultures are equal to larger then all current living Eagles by five to ten pounds plus and from my general observation kill dominance is in part based on who is the bigger bully(amongst other things) and not something about specialized anatomys (usually). Given that Eagles do dominate all of the new world vultures with the obvious exception of the large condors.<br /><br /> It seems to me that the only living contenders here for a relatively fair contest are the largest living Eagles and the smaller end of old world vultures with the ruppell vulture standing out as a ideal choice, my particular choice for the Eagles would be the stellar sea eagle as it is in some respects quite the scavenger and known for being quite the aggressive kleptoparasite, this followed by it being equal to slightly larger then ruppell. This I think would help establish a more definitive vulture vs eagle. Sadly there is no way we could humanely test this and they don't live any where's close to each other and lack history of each other.... Anyways there ends my long caveat.<br /><br />P.s not saying anything about scavengers being lesser then other lifestyles and such just that your first paragraph swerves off the mark from the rest of a damn fine article on speculative Mesozoic ecology etc.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444274404962614808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-53618997918767269512016-06-27T16:32:43.027-07:002016-06-27T16:32:43.027-07:00Lori is a troodontid from the Morrison Formation 1...Lori is a troodontid from the Morrison Formation 150 million years agoD-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-51149685675560109992016-06-27T14:44:05.177-07:002016-06-27T14:44:05.177-07:00@Duane Nash "Lori" is the nickname for t...@Duane Nash "Lori" is the nickname for the unnamed Morrison troodont.<br /><br />@khalil beiting Actually, it seems that the latter is the most likely, since many paravians once assumed to be flight capable are now believed not to be (such as Archaeopteryx and Anchiornis). Large wings however do seem to be ancestral to paravians, whether they could fly or not, since Archaeopteryx, Zhenyuanlong, Velociraptor, and Dakotaraptor all had very large wings but were incapable of flight.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01522154667101910892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-38764169319158676822016-06-27T06:15:08.455-07:002016-06-27T06:15:08.455-07:00Agree with ya, Duane, while i can understand why t...Agree with ya, Duane, while i can understand why they wait so long to release the paper, on the other hand, well, i don't see anything inherently bad if the photos of the specimens are available for the public some time before the official publication... After all science should teach and share.<br />Oh well, i'll stop here before someone start to think mine's a rant against scientists or something like that, which is definitely NOT the case ;)Alessionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-70542339749386023752016-06-26T22:41:54.286-07:002016-06-26T22:41:54.286-07:00@Christian Cool although I don't know who or w...@Christian Cool although I don't know who or what "Lori" is?<br /><br />@khalil I dunno. Things will be in a flux for a while. Seemed for a while like a new dino-bird critter was coming out of China like every week. I don't think we have properly digested and put together the things we do have much less what we don't have.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-54424982085788987422016-06-26T16:23:23.520-07:002016-06-26T16:23:23.520-07:00By the way, I forgot to ask, but this has always b...By the way, I forgot to ask, but this has always been a great question I've been wondering of, but is there evidence in favour of flight being ancestral to Paraves? I always just assumed it was since basal Paraves, basal Dromaeosauridae and avians were all fligh capable, and derived Dromaeosaurids share a lot of traits in that juveniles are flight capable. But Troodontids don't really show anything flight related, and the Dromaeosaurid Mahakala doesn't either, yet it's incredibly basal. What is the most likely thing going on with the origin of flight? And what arguements are on both sides (side A being flight is basal to Paraves and side B being it was evolved multiple times)?Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-68113958311046369352016-06-26T11:39:59.919-07:002016-06-26T11:39:59.919-07:00@Duane Nash Yeah, it will probably still be quite ...@Duane Nash Yeah, it will probably still be quite a while before the Utahraptor paper is finally published, so until then the best we've got is Scott Hartman's silhouette (which, luckily, reveals quite a bit). On the bright side, "Lori" is finally going to get published this year and the paper Scott did an Argentinosaurus skeletal for is supposed to get published this year as well.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01522154667101910892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-32942795136922177252016-06-26T07:41:25.274-07:002016-06-26T07:41:25.274-07:00@Alessio Right... how long do we have to wait? Pro...@Alessio Right... how long do we have to wait? Probably a while. Should start a bet on which comes out first the Spinosaurus monograph or Utahraptor paper. What irks me is that I suspect tons of people have seen the block of Utahraptor and shared images privately. But us poor plebeians have to wait. I kind of get the secrecy but kind of think it is lame... what are they worried about someone else getting the scoop on their specimens and publishing off a photograph on the internet? I am sure they are taking their time as not to disturb or lose data so get prepared for a long wait... Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-12765370535876122422016-06-26T07:10:29.081-07:002016-06-26T07:10:29.081-07:00Oh yeah, i love this article!
I mean, dromies as v...Oh yeah, i love this article!<br />I mean, dromies as vulture analogues (and it's been years since i started to look at 'em this way) which, by the way, are some of my favorite modern dinosaurs; my fav among them are the griffon (Gyps fulvus) and the mighty lammergeier (Gypaetus barbatus)... Aah, the beauty of these raptors, i could talk about 'em for hours!<br /><br />On the other hand, i seriously hope Kirkland & co will soon unveil what they discovered about the Utah dromie, i can't wait any more! I heard stories about short tails, big heads, curved lower jaws... Man, how long we have to wait for the friggin' paper?Alessionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-15562853861259058332016-06-25T09:03:49.331-07:002016-06-25T09:03:49.331-07:00@D-man Oh yeah I almost forgot about that! Such an...@D-man Oh yeah I almost forgot about that! Such an ingeneous tactic on the part of corvids. I would expect to see that at a massive carcass sometime in the Cretaceous now that you mention it.Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-58433389643172596772016-06-24T20:12:44.990-07:002016-06-24T20:12:44.990-07:00@khalil beiting Velociraptor and other small droma...@khalil beiting Velociraptor and other small dromaeosaurs probably engaged in "tail pulling" whenever they come across a larger carnivore at a carcass, in which they pull the tail feathers of the larger dromaeosaurs so that they can release the food. The method is seen in modern days corvids and is in fact a very common behavior.<br />http://corvidblog.tumblr.com/post/37622242234/tail-pulling<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPB2TikKfPAD-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-23321566503807057052016-06-24T19:46:07.862-07:002016-06-24T19:46:07.862-07:00Thanks for compliments D-man and khalil.
"Wh...Thanks for compliments D-man and khalil.<br /><br />"What would velociraptor be like?" Probably a mixed bag of scavenging and hunting. It was likely small due to its environment but still probably a bit of a meso-predator like a coyote. Tsaagan likely bullied and even killed velociraptor though.<br /><br />I want to hold off on Utahraptor until the new stuff is revealed. I have heard there is some unexpected stuff with the head... I don't want to prohibit them from scavenging. We don't know enough about the efficiency of their walking to say for sure that they could not cover distance albeit slowly. Like bears do which are plantigrade but still cover huge distances foraging and scavenging.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-81169061015074045112016-06-24T17:20:41.012-07:002016-06-24T17:20:41.012-07:00Amazing post as always. I never heard that Dakotar...Amazing post as always. I never heard that Dakotaraptor had such small III and IV foot claws at least in the adult form (That is probably the reason why Saurian decided to have adult Dakotaraptors not climb trees).<br /><br />D-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-50881659714904523532016-06-24T14:58:42.372-07:002016-06-24T14:58:42.372-07:00Congratulations on making Dromaeosaurids my favour...Congratulations on making Dromaeosaurids my favourite group of (non avian) Theropods again! These last two posts have changed my general opinion of Dromaeosaurs a lot. I once thought of them as graceful assassins like modern hawks, but now I look at many species as giant predatory vultures, complete with massive, disgusting wattles and dare I say even quills on certain parts of the body. You truely are making Dromaeousaurids nasty again! So seeing as how medium sized species were usually "carcass bullies", what would smaller sized species like Velociraptor be like then? Would they still just be scavengers and/or small game hunters? And what of the massive Utahraptor? Although it fits the general size plan for an ideal terrestrial scavenger, it lacks long legs or any major cursorial adaptations. I mean, jsut look at how stumpy the legs are:<br />http://pre04.deviantart.net/63c2/th/pre/i/2015/313/e/d/dakotaraptor_and_utahraptor_2_0_by_hyrotrioskjan-d9fzc6v.jpg<br />I assume it was primarily an ambush hunter then? Seeing as how it couldn't really track down carcasses for miles like the others.<br /><br />And I await more of your blog posts!Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.com