tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post3730179603832428063..comments2024-03-18T02:43:22.233-07:00Comments on Antediluvian Salad: Your Puny Lipped Sabertooth Kitty is SMASHED!!Duane Nashhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-80426735455825049952024-02-04T22:31:51.939-08:002024-02-04T22:31:51.939-08:00Oh no! Poor little kitty! cue sad violin music Tho...Oh no! Poor little kitty! cue sad violin music Those puny lips couldn't save it from the mighty force! But hey, don't worry, there's plenty of love and cuddles to go around. Let's remember the little guy and cherish the memories. "Your comment is like a burst of confetti, adding joy to our blog. Each word is a brushstroke on the canvas of conversation, creating a vibrant tapestry of ideas. We eagerly await your next insight, as your contributions light up our digital world. Thanks for being our comment superstar!" <a href="https://srislawyer.com/bankr-uptcy-lawyers-near-me/" rel="nofollow">bankrupty attorney near me</a><br /><br />Alexander_01https://www.blogger.com/profile/12675086696204241925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-72316102439832428092023-12-21T06:03:15.485-08:002023-12-21T06:03:15.485-08:00Piercing the Veil on Kaiju Dinosaur in an Age of D...Piercing the Veil on Kaiju Dinosaur in an Age of Disruption" – available on Amazon in both ebook and soft cover! 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Trust in their expertise to redefine and elevate your commercial space in Dubai.Anna Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05520911123366210119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-86749007758462617202023-11-21T06:53:55.570-08:002023-11-21T06:53:55.570-08:00Indulge in the rich and velvety delight of a choco...Indulge in the rich and velvety delight of a <a href="https://charbonnel-sa.com/" rel="nofollow">chocolate bar in Riyadh</a>, where the sweet symphony of cocoa blends with the vibrant cultural tapestry of the city. A heavenly treat for the senses, offering a moment of pure bliss in the heart of Saudi Arabia's capital.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Charbonnelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10064890409899000752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-85027754185451454762019-06-18T15:50:59.459-07:002019-06-18T15:50:59.459-07:00[2/2] It's also worth mentioning that the disp...[2/2] It's also worth mentioning that the disparity between the distance from a smilodons tooth tips to its chin to that of a dog or clouded leopard makes it completely absurd to compare the two. The animal's bottom lip would be shaped in a bizarre and again, inconvenient and dangerous way. I mean having two loose, thin flaps of flesh hanging from your chin is unlikely without human interference. These would easily be torn off in a fight causing dangerous infection and again, would have interfered with eating/biting for a smilodon. <br /><br />In fact, one of the most popular ideas for the nature of smilodons teeth is the neck impalement/slicing theory. But for this to occur without harming the organism itself, the lips would have to be fully lifted. And the only model organisms we have for your hypothesis of lip size are bulldogs and other such canines... And they simply can't lift their lips enough to reveal their whole mouths - at least from what I've seen. I can't say for sure as I've never owned a bulldog, personally, but this seems to be the case after a thorough browse.<br /><br />On the point of human interference, big sloppy lips like the ones you describe only occur in animals that have been tampered with by humans, as far as I know. Again I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure it's a human invention. Y'know, considering how obviously impractical it is. <br /><br />Yes yes, clouded leopards. We get it. But again, clouded leopard teeth are nowhere near comparable to those of Sabre toothed cats. Neither are their lips comparable to those that you suggest.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-52824067569522553242019-06-18T15:47:53.599-07:002019-06-18T15:47:53.599-07:00[1/2] Probably eons late to this debate, but this ...[1/2] Probably eons late to this debate, but this circle jerk of contrarians is truly pungent (including you, dear author). <br /><br />Well I'm no expert, but I have a few things to suggest. Certainly not as pertinent as some other points such as muscle placement indication on the skull, but I won't repeat points that have already been said for the sake of saving time.<br /><br />You briefly mentioned fanged deer. Muntjac and tufted deer both have exposed fangs. They're described as "tusk like" rather than tusks themselves, generally. I know they're not carnivorous but the way their teeth are presented is similar to the typical smilodon hypothesis, so a comparison between these deer and smilodon could perhaps crack the code once and for all. You said the teeth have different purposes, but why should that mean the presentation of said teeth is different? In fact id argue it's wiser to say the presentation is the same seeing as we have no living animals with teeth comparable to the fanged deer which are sheathed. Yes, the clouded leopard exists. But the difference is the fangs of deer often exceed the jaw, and by quite a bit. The teeth of clouded leopards? Not so much.<br /><br />You also asked for disadvantages of these sorts of overhanging lips. And all reconstructions you present do have them "overhanging" (exceeding the teeth). This would obviously make opening the mouth quite inconvenient. 1) the cat would likely have some difficulty cleaning its own muzzle and 2) this overhanging lip would have likely been outright dangerous. I mean having to pull a fleshy lip out from (essentially) under two sharp knife-like canines or having said lip impaled on those canines during a scuffle would lead to difficulty eating and death. Anything short of impalement could lead to an internal wound, and an internal abrasion could cause trouble if infected, which is certainly possible. Constant infections on big lipped smilodons would eventually lead to natural selection stepping in. So either the hypothesis is questionable or we've discovered why smilodon went extinct.<br /><br />I'm not denying smilodon had any lips beyond the classic hypothesis, they may well have been bigger. But hanging below the teeth is undoubtedly nonsense.<br /><br />My cat - actually all of the cats I've owned - have followed this pattern. Lips that essentially come almost to the bottom of the canine, but not quite. So a tiny bit protrudes if you look from the right angle. So that hypothesis cannot be rejected.<br /><br />So you talked about clouded leopards. Fair enough. But perhaps we should look for a creature even closer to the smilodon. Perhaps the cave lion?<br /><br />Paintings of cave lions seem to indicate an opening below the top lip, dissimilar from lions and tigers. This opening may be where the canine protrudes. Of course this is mere speculation, but it's worth considering.<br /><br />Homotherium is also worth considering. While there is far less art, it still exists and portrays a mouth that ends rather close to the front of the nuzzle. Undoubtedly, an indication that mouths of prehistoric cats were most likely shorter than those of modern felines. And shorter also means less pronounced by proxy. So again, the big lip hypothesis is not consistent with depictions of more closely related felines. That's not to say smilodon was the same as homotherium or cave lions, but surely they would have shown some phenotypical similarities - and ones far more relevant than those of the clouded leopard.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-12852002938160217512016-12-22T06:01:12.071-08:002016-12-22T06:01:12.071-08:00Hello, ive read the whole thing,
About the topic y...<br />Hello, ive read the whole thing,<br />About the topic you have been covering, first of all, if they did have long lips which cover the fangs it would be, like the comments above, very biteable. Second of all in order for the cat to expose his canines to bite anything it would need the lips to have muscles in them, if muacles were built in the lips it will be seen in the skull (skull shows where muscles touched it) and based on my ressarch no skull indicates this kind of lips. Another reason which i can't really explain is that it will simply be too heavy, and the lips would need to change the whole anatomical structure of the head and snout muscles to support their weight. You have mentioned something about teeth that chew and slice meat need to be covered with saliva, most articles claim that smilodon didnt use his upper fangs for eating at all, that is why hia incisors and other teeth need to be so large as well, he probably only used his canines to kill prey. Another suggestion is that the fangs were constantly licked (yes, licked) with the saber cat tongue to keep them wet, much like some lizards lick their eyes conatantly.<br />Correct me if i am mistaking and sorry for bad english, have a good day and thanks for reading :)<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00434332205384909839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-10699020396695882382016-08-24T14:30:30.281-07:002016-08-24T14:30:30.281-07:00Well I'm a little late to the party on this on...Well I'm a little late to the party on this one by the look of things, I just found your blog and will say I enjoy it so far.<br /><br />I really can't say I know much of anything about Saber tooth animals in general (generally any rea, but it's pretty hard to avoid some of the more popular science on Smilodon since it's kind of a paleo mascot like the Tyrannosaurus or Triceratops.<br /><br />From everything I've seen on the Smilodon though, I always find it frustrating because the feeding mechanics (or I guess more specifically the killing mechanics) as I've seen them proposed make no sense given the build of the creature in general. A heavy built animal that delivers precise bites with fragile teeth and to very large creatures doesn't really track imo. To me it makes more sense if it was a head butter or I guess chin-stabber might be more accurate -- using its neck muscles to drive in a piercing blow rather than finagling itself into such a place where it can simultaneously subdue large prey items while delivering a death stroke. (I feel as though I've seen this proposed somewhere, but I can never for the life of me find anything while searching for it.)<br /><br />So I was a bit skeptical at first, but honestly thicker lips (particularly on the lower lips) make a lot of sense not only for saliva purposes, but also protecting them from breakage when struggling with prey. Everything I've seen about Smilodon teeth is that they're very vulnerable to breaking when put under stress perpendicular to the tooth. Having a thick lip might have even helped absorb some of the force from struggling prey to help keep the canines from breaking.<br /><br />A chin-smacking saber would also spend most of its time with its sightline perpendicular to its target, but a well developed set of lips and whiskers could allow the saber to keep a strong sensory connection with prey, even while being unable to look at it directly. The wiki article anyway says that the sensory capabilities in feline whiskers help with 3 dimensional awareness, so it would make sense that a saber could be using lips and whiskers to find a good time and place to throw opportunistic strikes against the belly, neck, back, or even legs while pride mates struck at other locations around the prey animal.<br /><br />It doesn't even need to be able to pull its lips up particularly far. Just far enough to clear the chin and let the sabers hang out.Mr. Stronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11808213299168308131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-33689979840478192112016-06-03T15:51:17.900-07:002016-06-03T15:51:17.900-07:00Here's my two cents on thylacosmilids and thei...Here's my two cents on thylacosmilids and their "tusk-like" sabers:<br /><br />https://gwawinapterus.wordpress.com/2016/06/03/so-whats-the-deal-with-thylacosmilids/<br />http://kenbrasai.tumblr.com/post/145374955438/so-whats-the-deal-with-thylacosmilidsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-17324083317348525992016-05-29T17:47:03.128-07:002016-05-29T17:47:03.128-07:00Yeah, stop feeding the trolls...Yeah, stop feeding the trolls...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01522154667101910892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-57578322903387703262016-05-29T13:23:33.073-07:002016-05-29T13:23:33.073-07:00Actually it would not need such lips. Mammals have...Actually it would not need such lips. Mammals have a thicker layer of enamel than crocodiles, for example, and that is why they can live without constantly replacing their teeth. Saliva itself does not help tha much to remineralize the teeth (otherwise we would not have to brush our teeth and lions, tigers, bears, wolves and hyenas, for example, would not show yellowish teeth when they reach adulthood), so having exposed teeth would not be a problem.PaleoKnighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14759160960102177697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-30637698584209879682016-05-29T12:03:46.021-07:002016-05-29T12:03:46.021-07:00Really should stop feeding the troll...Really should stop feeding the troll...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-84971188989052960232016-05-29T12:01:40.588-07:002016-05-29T12:01:40.588-07:00I'm not accusing you of being a creationist, b...I'm not accusing you of being a creationist, but of being just as dogmatic as them and saying things are wrong because they don't fit in your preconceived set of ideas. <br /><br />That's not how science works. Science should always strive to found the best possible answer to natural phenomenons. It doesn't matter if a hypothesis is flawed since both confirming it and DENYING it allow us to progress further in our scientific knowledge. If it was for people like you we might be still stuck with Newtonian physics or classic Darwinian evolution just because they were good enough to explain a lot of natural phenomena. Even if Duane Nash won't publish his findings in an academic level it might inspire somebody to do it in the future.<br /><br />I grow with Mauricio Antón reconstructions of Machairodontids, yet I have no problem conceiving the possibility that they might not be accurate nor does it undermine my oppinon in his abbilities as a paleoartist, that would be like saying Charles R Knight was a bad paleoartist because it's work is outdated.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-25532399765393930622016-05-29T10:57:44.459-07:002016-05-29T10:57:44.459-07:00Accusing me of creationism, are you. I can assure ...Accusing me of creationism, are you. I can assure you that creationism should be banned! Honestly, this is exactly we are losing the science war to China! I for one see Ken Ham as a parasite and he ought to go back to Australia! I for one actually support evolution and I am making drawings for my novel. Now I have to remake them and make Tyrannosaurus look like a lizard because now I am going to be made fun of for being "obsolete"! I feel pissed off that Duane is enjoying himself like a king on a throne. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13347340287346067084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-52228110340465512432016-05-29T10:49:08.804-07:002016-05-29T10:49:08.804-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13347340287346067084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-56080732733392548032016-05-29T07:36:14.374-07:002016-05-29T07:36:14.374-07:00*Unloborgis**Unloborgis*Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-81124141862425480502016-05-29T07:28:00.005-07:002016-05-29T07:28:00.005-07:00@babehunter1324 Interesting thoughts. My mind chan...@babehunter1324 Interesting thoughts. My mind changes and moves on these issues all the time. Anyone has a right to change their mine with new and better arguments and evidence. Even if it means throwing your own idea in the scrap heap. Case in point pockets make sense for most sabertooths and I don't think the flappy lips I first drew with the upper lip plopping down against the lower lip is the best option anymore for smilodon and am favoring the depiction I recently added that is more classically felid by Unilorg. That is the way things should be allowed... not undying dogmatism.<br /><br />@Corey because I am sure he'll back as he is compiling a massive campaign against this. Enough picking on him as it is starting to look like child abuse. And I just got off the phone with Ken Ham who happens to agree with all his arguments so he has proponents for his saber licking kitty.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-89850089332327238122016-05-29T01:21:12.308-07:002016-05-29T01:21:12.308-07:00@Duane
I might not be 100% convinced with your or...@Duane<br /><br />I might not be 100% convinced with your original bulldog Smilodon reconstruction, but at least you gave a lot of information to support it to the point that it's clear that the hypthesis grants further research, it might be right, it might be wrong but it is grounded in logic thinking.<br /><br />Meanwhile @Corey arguments are based on fallacies and aesthetics and in the BELIEF that new research will proof the hypothesis is wrong, since he isn't the one that brings any scientific arguments to the discussion, why would any animal care about looking cool or threatening to modern humans? Heck Smilodon only coexist a few thousand years with humans before it's extinction.<br /><br />So in a very ironic way, Corey compared Duane to creationist when the ones who's argument is based on beliefs, personal preference and no physcial evidence is Corey. He is behaving like the very same thing he loathes...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-21163688917578546202016-05-29T01:12:35.775-07:002016-05-29T01:12:35.775-07:00Are you aware that a lot of animals had sexual sel...Are you aware that a lot of animals had sexual selective traits that we found disgusting or ugly but are attractive for other members of the species, right?<br /><br />Go no further than the Warthog, those ugly bumps on it's head are used for display to some extent.<br /><br />Anyhow, modern felides barelly ever use visual sexual display to attract females they tend to use roars for territorial demarkation as well as scent, also considering that a lot of species of Machairodonts like Smilodon had a relativelly small sexual dimorphism (there was some according to the latest research but it was about as much as in the snow leopard, the least sexually dimorphic big cat) and that the very few times we had direct evidence of associated Smilodon remains they appear in more or less gender equal proportions it is quite clear that if Smilodon was social it di thing svery differently to modern lions.<br /><br />The funny thing about this is that we wouldn't had this conversation had not Smildon be the "choosen one" just because it's popular, the fact that nearly every other Machairodont had low jaw flanges about as long as their canines means that they if the had sheathed teeth they certainly had a clouded leopard like solution. Smilodon is the outlier and the only one I can think off that breaks the mould.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-83172678736694199972016-05-29T01:08:14.020-07:002016-05-29T01:08:14.020-07:00Glad I was at work when all this went down above. ...Glad I was at work when all this went down above. Thanks to those that defended me and everything holding down the fort. I do have to laugh a bit imagining Smilodon constantly licking its canines. Waking up all the time to lick its canines. Sort of something porny about that image too... Yeah I could delete Corey as he has spammed me a bunch... BUT I find him kinda cute. Plus he represents the small lip contingent. If I was for something and saw that this knuckledhead was for the same thing I was for I would leap to other side!! Hopefully he will bring me more believers for my neo-hipster-psuedoscience-rant-o-speculations.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-73360002096690494722016-05-28T21:23:23.643-07:002016-05-28T21:23:23.643-07:00https://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-that-sabretooth...https://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-that-sabretooth-cats-bore-large-lips-that-covered-their-canines<br /><br />I found a link concerning this, so maybe I can get more support from it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13347340287346067084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-43439222412347464322016-05-28T20:53:23.127-07:002016-05-28T20:53:23.127-07:00@CoreyStudios2000 "That would take more than ...@CoreyStudios2000 "That would take more than one agreement from one paleontologist to convince me of anything radical and perhaps overspeculative as this." Yeah, saying it had elongated lips to cover its sabres is totally more radical and speculative than saying they had developed stonger enamel, something which has NO basis in fossil evidence whatsoever.<br /><br />"What if it needs those fangs to attract mates? How can a Smilodon with slobbery, bulldog lips even possibly help in getting a female to his dominance?" You know there's this amazing thing called "baring teeth". Cats do it all the time. As for "slobbery bulldog lips," big cats like lions "slobber" quite frequently, as do the majority of large mammals.<br /><br />"I am just stating that have been NO terrestrial predators alive today like Smilodon that we can compare to. So this post may as well be just speculation." Wow, you really dug your own grave with this sentence... If this theory "may as well be just speculation," because there is no living analogue (which actually might not even be true...), then the same goes for any argument for uncovered sabres.<br /><br />"One day someone will find proof of Smilodon having more evolved enamel than modern cats and put this argument to rest." Maybe they will, maybe they won't. That's the thing about science, unexpected things are discovered all the time and you can't predict it. But in the mean time, we need to use what is known already to back up our arguments and reach a conclusion as to what these animals were like. You have not used any evidence whatsoever to back up any of your claims (and stubbornly insist on continuing not to do so), so you are welcome to go "grumble quietly in a corner, clutching your VHS copy of Jurassic Park," so long as you stop wasting the valuable time of people who actually do. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01522154667101910892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-54599706775845516502016-05-28T19:54:58.312-07:002016-05-28T19:54:58.312-07:00In that case, Smilodon's teeth would have serv...In that case, Smilodon's teeth would have served both. Also, the lips would have been an obstacle to the fangs, not a benefit.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13347340287346067084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-16561803658603458812016-05-28T19:49:06.115-07:002016-05-28T19:49:06.115-07:00Would display devices have literal serration in th...Would display devices have literal serration in them?D-mannoreply@blogger.com