tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post5547057505559460058..comments2024-03-28T02:45:03.204-07:00Comments on Antediluvian Salad: The Disservice of Tyrannomania: Taking the Tyrant Lizards Down A NotchDuane Nashhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-81025047926293130702021-10-23T14:23:27.541-07:002021-10-23T14:23:27.541-07:00Megalasaurids share skull shape with Tyrannosaurid...Megalasaurids share skull shape with Tyrannosaurids, as does the giant madagsacan archosaur razanandrongobe. They seem to also share the general niche of being big heavy and powerful predators that all seem very well suited to ambushing, all looking like they are capable of very quickly subduing most prey in their enviroment with the crushing power of their bites. I personally think the allosaurid skull evolved to save weight, and more possibly more efficent cooling by being more pneumatisised, initially a compromise but becoming very very fit for purpose, we see time after time allosaurids being dominant in enviroments with wide open plains or in more arid settings, such as the massive allosaur quaries found in the morrison) and we consistently see them contemporaneous with smaller therapods such as abelisaurs or tyrannosaurids that may well be more suited to more closed enviroments. Perhaps allosaurids were generally adapted to be pursuit predators like the wolves or wild dogs. When we look at alioramus it too was living in a borderline desert enviroment with lush areas around braided river channels, it was contemporary with tarbosaurus, and i do not think that its cooincidence that we have a allosaurid convergent tyrannosaurid sharing its enviroment with a very tyrannosaurus line tyrannosaurid when said enviroment encompasses wide open areas and dense vegitated areas. It would be interesting global climate change to changes in skull therapod morphology. I'd think that allosaurid shaped skulls kept evolving because the mesozoic could be a harsh and arid place. We see it in megaraptorians such as the excellently presurved skull of banjo the australovenator wintonensis as well, and the australovenator was seemingly certainly a runner.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08847122481807279472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-67957499215325734622016-04-09T16:09:46.307-07:002016-04-09T16:09:46.307-07:00This is untrue, Triceratops weighs 10 tons while T...This is untrue, Triceratops weighs 10 tons while T.rex weighs in at 7 tons. Also Edmomtosaurus is a bit taller and longer and a bit heavier too, though I have to agree that T.rex probably could not take down a fully grown or even sub adult <br />Alamosaurus.<br /><br />Tyrannosaurids are definitely amazing predators, but like Duan said their are many other predators in the same league. I believe that all carnivores are "winners" since they are all best suited for taking down the prey they have.D-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-45139357175106473452016-01-22T08:27:27.072-08:002016-01-22T08:27:27.072-08:00Yes thanks for comment anonymous. I have also hear...Yes thanks for comment anonymous. I have also heard Bakker mention of allosaur feeding lairs, I don't know if he is referring to same place that you visited. I have to admit that I am not quite sold on parent allosaurs provisioning the young. I think it is more a case of both the old and young feeding together on carcasses opportunistically. Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-60418668714858288282016-01-21T16:23:18.573-08:002016-01-21T16:23:18.573-08:00 A long time ago I went to Thermopolis in Wyomi... A long time ago I went to Thermopolis in Wyoming. They have an Allosaurus feeding site there. (Not a nest they say, no egg shells). They know this because the parent Allosaurus left a big footprint in the mud. They tour guide said they thought the parent brought home pieces of leg bone home to the babies to eat. They have lots of shed baby Allosaurus teeth and pieces of shattered sauropod bone all over the place, as I remember. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-9935548525306518432016-01-11T11:30:59.670-08:002016-01-11T11:30:59.670-08:00@Warren JB the extra wide gape of certain theropod...@Warren JB the extra wide gape of certain theropods, esp Allosaurus, may offer some clues into biting into wide surfaces. I suspect that there were "guilds" of theropods that acted in concert to dispose of such colossal mounds of flesh much as vultures show different specialties in accessing a carcass today. Some were good at or even necessary, to open up the thick and/or armored hide and then others may have concentrated on probing into the viscera or had a particular liking for cartilage/ligaments/skin. I want to explore this idea further in another post. I also suspect that this large carcass partitioning applied to not only species but different age groups of theropods.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-56876479634546754852016-01-08T19:13:21.080-08:002016-01-08T19:13:21.080-08:00Interesting as ever, Duane; and always good that s...Interesting as ever, Duane; and always good that someone points out that there were big theropods other than 'trex'.<br />Joe Pesci style, huh? Gives "Here's an arm. Here's a leg. Here's a wing!" an extra layer.<br /><br />Luke: some good videos of komodo dragons feeding on large carcases, on youtube. Interesting that they pull back, as mentioned, but also 'saw' side to side. Not shaking like a shark, but a more deliberate 'turn head and bite laterally > pull back and straighten > reposition mouthful to other side > repeat'. Seemingly when presented with a wide, flat flank or limb surface that can't be easily bitten - at least not with the result of a decent mouthful - with the point of the snout. (Though I wonder if that has much to do with the suspended rather than freely lying joints of meat in some vids)<br /><br />Brings up images in my head. I can imagine theropods plucking at soft underbellies and cloacal openings first, as Duane's talked about, and as vultures and dragons do. But when that's gone (or crowded) and there's only a sauropodal shoulder or side of ribs, the general size and shape of a barn door...?Warren JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11743987856127631574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-40526772619145779532016-01-08T10:13:49.110-08:002016-01-08T10:13:49.110-08:00Among large terrestrial predators specializing on ...Among large terrestrial predators specializing on large prey, you find the highest carcass utilization among the giant constrictors and the Komodo dragon. Constrictors are probably not a good analogy for theropod feeding, but the dragons might be. Dragons dismember carcasses using a back-and-forth sawing motion as you have hypothesized for the blade-toothed theropods; dragons have ziphodont teeth; and dragons typically leave nothing but the gut contents of their prey - they consume all the bones, skull and all (and skin, tendons, organs, muscle, hair, horns ... everything). Could similar behavior among the theropods shed some light on the relative paucity of mid-sized sauropod remains? Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617890536562434320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-6105901039258179652016-01-07T08:38:27.587-08:002016-01-07T08:38:27.587-08:00Also, screw tyrannosaurs. They can't kill anyt...Also, screw tyrannosaurs. They can't kill anything bigger than themselves (though they definitely were not small-prey specialists) for Carcharodontosaurus's sake!BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759189747932749283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-22151650529237856252016-01-07T08:35:50.881-08:002016-01-07T08:35:50.881-08:00Also, sawing through the artery is a faster kill t...Also, sawing through the artery is a faster kill than pulverizing.BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759189747932749283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-7921585185571936252016-01-07T08:34:09.841-08:002016-01-07T08:34:09.841-08:00FIANLLY!!!FIANLLY!!!BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759189747932749283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-75627627830026621582016-01-07T07:57:34.104-08:002016-01-07T07:57:34.104-08:00Yes, a disabling bite to the caudemofemoralis has ...Yes, a disabling bite to the caudemofemoralis has been suggested before: http://antediluviansalad.blogspot.com/2013/07/return-of-land-shark.html<br /><br />Hadrosaurs with agility, speed, and a very thick/tough skin were probably more problematic prey than generally imagined. That they got away sometimes - as proven by haling of damaged bite trauma - suggests as such. Don't underestimate the quarry.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-56129413686091353732016-01-07T03:14:39.768-08:002016-01-07T03:14:39.768-08:00@The Eurypterid, I'm no proffesional biologist...@The Eurypterid, I'm no proffesional biologist, but your theory seems pretty sound. A (somewhat) close modern day analogy would be the spotted Hyena. It can crush through bone, yet it doesn't nesecarilly go for said bone even when hunting. It uses it's bone crushing bite to cause mass trauma and damage to it's (usually) still alive prey. Like you said, the same method can be seen in the highly traumatized tail vertebra of a certiain Edmontosaurus specimen.Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-75104528169078881432016-01-06T17:13:53.927-08:002016-01-06T17:13:53.927-08:00Perhaps tyrannosaur bites were designed for crippl...Perhaps tyrannosaur bites were designed for crippling prey via attacking the musculature?<br /><br />We have bites aimed at the caudofemoralis (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/DMNS_Edmontosaurus.png), which would do said crippling. Tyrannosaurs would need long teeth- which they do have, after a visual check versus Carchar- in order to penetrate the fat likely stored on the tail base (the deposits' existence suspected by Witton, http://markwitton-com.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/humps-lumps-and-fatty-tissues-in.html).<br /><br />The bite force, skull and teeth would also need to be much stronger in order to damage the deeper muscle without breaking the grip from stress or simply tearing out with superficial damage. This is also observed. Unlike abelisaurs, an extended period of stress on the skull is unlikely (due to the goal being disabling instead of wearing down), meaning the skull can afford to become very solid.<br /><br />We know that ceratopsians did very well alongside tyrannosaurs. Perhaps their body-concealing frills, short legs and relatively sloped, stumpy tails were designed to make it as awkward as possible for a tyrannosaur to identify and disable any major locomotary muscle groups?<br /><br />This is all speculation, so if someone who actually knows biology could comment and pick holes, I'd appreciate that. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537056479288460350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-35229706757381471442016-01-06T01:56:11.684-08:002016-01-06T01:56:11.684-08:00In general , i've always had a healthy respect...In general , i've always had a healthy respect for tyrannosaurs and their capabilities and have never tried to take anything away from them, but i've never put them up on a pedestal as being superior to every other archosaurian predator either , every theropod was awesome and special in their own way in surviving in their respective habitat and time, actually you can expand that statement to pretty much every organism that has existed on this planet , there are no failed experiments in nature as every living thing is equipped with the tools necessary to enable it to exploit its environment to its fullest capability , the extinction of a certain species does not necessarily mean that it was inferior to its replacements, it simply means that it just wasn't cut out to survive in the current time and place. Robert Haannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-7748155739543315572016-01-05T18:33:15.025-08:002016-01-05T18:33:15.025-08:00@ khalil I would love to do one on abelisaurids bu...@ khalil I would love to do one on abelisaurids but I don't really have anything to add on their feeding mechanism... I think that they really did just bite onto and hold tight like giant bull dogs. One funny trope I noticed in their art is that they always seem to run in pairs, just funny I thought.<br />Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-41373119772623662812016-01-05T15:09:27.570-08:002016-01-05T15:09:27.570-08:00Very good post, I have to agree with the fact that...Very good post, I have to agree with the fact that this Tyrannosauridmania should go.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-84464217308115223872016-01-05T14:32:10.158-08:002016-01-05T14:32:10.158-08:00I actually find Dryptosaurus really intriguing. So...I actually find Dryptosaurus really intriguing. Some recent suggestions point to it either being a close relative of Xionngunalong or possibly even being a Megaraptorid. I'm not taking a side until we find better remains though. And now I'm even more intrigued about the next post ;). By the way, just a reminder, but you should eventually do a post on Abelisaurids. They must have been doing something weird since they don't closely resemble other "vanilla" Theropods.Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-42929676004877872602016-01-05T14:20:39.090-08:002016-01-05T14:20:39.090-08:00Thanks and you will like the next flesh rippin'...Thanks and you will like the next flesh rippin' post khalil unless I get distracted by something else which is always possible... I am intrigued by tryannosauroids as they seem to come in more flavors than tyrannosaurids. Also Dryptosaurus.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8161161431451849208.post-9778015409651457762016-01-05T13:43:08.138-08:002016-01-05T13:43:08.138-08:00Amazing post as always. We seriously need more att...Amazing post as always. We seriously need more attention on the massively diverse lineages of non Tyrannosaurid Theropods. Like seriously, just look at how "diverse" Tyrannosaurids are. You basically just have Tyrannosaurs rex kind of forms that just have giant robust jaws with tiny arms, and then you have little dainty forms like Alioramus that have long teeth and long snouts; although they still have about the same body plan. There are some forms in between but that's about it. But look at literally any other Theropod group. Bull horned Abelisaurs, pack hunting uber mega sauropod/stegosaur hunting Carnosaurs, small sized basal Neotheropods that (possibly) used mob/hoard tactics to viscerate large sized prey, near sabertoothed Herrerasaurids and Ceratosaurs, giant crocodile mimic Megalosaurids (although Spinosaurus is WAY too over hyped), giant scythe armed Megaraptorids, nocturnal Troodontids that were essentially ground dwelling owls with the attitude of a pissed of Cassowary and giant and even semi-volant Dromaeosauirds were all stalking and eviscerating the multitude of prey items in their habitats. Well, enough with my long ramble, you get the gist of it. You're doing a great service to the paleontological community by focusing on Theropods that were utterly destroying flesh. I look forward to your next post!Iris-Katyayanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188961246186305190noreply@blogger.com